• Print
close
Breaking news

Membership in God’s earthly kingdom, designed to prepare us for His heaven...read more

On Apostasy

doctrine apostasy

People know the church is true to the degree they are true to the church. So they don’t struggle with the church, they struggle with living it’s principles and come up with a host of reasons to explain it away….

If the gospel is so wonderful, then why would anyone leave?” Asked Pres. Uchtdorf in October 2013. There are a host of reasons, they lecture the Lord, berate the Brethren, criticize the church, complain about the curriculum, condemn the chosen (common folk), glamorize the gospel, rationalize the rituals, flip flop their faith and follow fools, to justify their judgements, open the ordinances to operation, or demilitarize the devil. Put simply

“Faithful members resemble one another, but unfaithful members are unfaithful in their own way.” SaW

Here is a rough outline of a discourse to be written on Apostasy.

Research
  • Disbelief cannot change truth… “that all may be Edified,” pg 150
    • Not apostles of the world…
    • The test is not whether men will believe but whether the Lord has called us…
    • Follow the apostles not the apostates
  • Follow the Brethen – “That all may be Edified,” pg 236
  • Common sticks story , Ibid
  • “There are some things you know, or may come to know, that you will find quite difficult to explain to others. I am very certain that it was meant to be that way.” “That all may be Edified,” pg.333
  • People ride their own hobby horse out of the church
    • Give up a w
  • People don’t struggle with the church, they struggle with living it’s principles
  • People know the church is true to the degree they are true to the church
    • “If you were convicted in court of being a mormon, would there be enough evidence to convict you?”
  • “By their fruits ye shall know them, not by the fruit flies.” Elder Oaks, Boise Rescue discussion
  • “They that murmurer shall learn doctrine”
    • The reason people leave the church is because they don’t understand the doctrine
    • http://bookofmormononline.net/commentary/1128511101
    • Isaiah 29:24, 2 Nephi 27:33-35
    • “It shall distill upon they souls as the dews from heaven.”
    • How do we teach members to ask questions rightly?
    • Alma 23:6 Believed in the preaching, converted to the Lord, never did fall away
  • “Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.” 1 Cor. 2:1-3, 5
    • Faith should not stand in worldly ways, wrong wishes, wannabes, or outcomes (carnal)
    • Faith is acting on truth not knowledge
    • Don’t have faith in the brethren changing policy but you in you becoming better
  • “My faith always has to be greater than my knowledge.” saw
  • Do you want to get business advice from someone that is always a failure. Negative attitude or from a highly successful person and company?
  • The wedge in the tree – hidden wedges
    • Story by President Hinckley
    • Conference April 1966, Spencer W. Kimball
  • Why did you fall out of bed? Because I wasn’t in far enough
    • Story by Harold B. Lee
  • Hug the truck of the tree
    • “Stay with the mainstream of the church”
  • Old ship Zion
    • Salvation comes through the church
    • The Savior is on board
  • “give me truth for I am weary of the edges”
  • “When you are arguing against God, you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all, It is like cutting off the branch you are sitting on.” C.S. Lewis
    • This truth is the very root of Christian doctrine. You may know much about the gospel as it branches out from there, but if you only know the branches and those branches do not touch that root, if they have been cut free from that truth, there will be no life nor substance nor redemption in them. “That all may be edified, pg. 320
  • “Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.” Martin Luther King Jr.
  • J. Ruben Clark
    • Everyone thought he was going to hell for studying law so he committed to 30 minutes a day in the Book of Mormon
    • How did that turn out?
  • Doubting and questioning are different? Elder Oaks
    • “The sane person always cares more for truth than consistency. If he sees two truths that seem to contradict each other, he accepts both truths and the contradiction along with them. His intellectual sight is stereoscopic, like his physical sight: he sees two different pictures at once and yet sees all the better for that.” – G.K. Chesterton
  • Why drink the water downstream? Go to the source
    • You drink the water because you are thirsty, but If you are drinking water that makes you sick, stop drinking the water
    • STOP IT! Elder Uchdorf, see MadTV clip
  • “doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith” or anything else. Elder Uchtdorf
  • “They play one key (principle) of the piano (Gospel) over and over, instead of the music of the gospel”
    • “We always overestimate the power of a single doctrine/historic event and underestimate the purpose of the whole gospel.” Tree vs forest. Don’t be lulled into far sidedness. SaW
  • Those who have a firm and broad foundation in the scriptures are generally not attracted to such “loose writings…” The esoteric and sensational always seem to attract more readers and greater audiences than do the simple truths of salvation…Look beyond the mark…”
  • Within the church today there are tares among the wheat and wolves within the flock. As President Clark stated, “the ravening wolves are amongst us, from our own membership and they more than any others are clothes in sheep’s clothing because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood…” Watch and be ready” pg. 20
  • “The two types of church members who are most susceptible to being deceived are those who do not keep the commandments and those who pride themselves on their strict observance of the rules and ordinances and ceremonies of the church.” Joseph F. Smith “watch and be ready” pg. 13
  • ” those who have chronicled the life of Christ have revealed more of themselves than they have of the master.” “Reveals a mans true self as… Pg. 48
  • It was never a matter of enough brain cells or ideas that people left the safety of the church, but not “pondering the things in their hearts” Lamen & Lemuel
  • The intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how heaven goes.”  https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
  • “Life was meant to be lived, not understood” Santayana
    • “I believe God is managing affairs and that He doesn’t need any advice from me. With God in charge, I believe that everything will work out for the best in the end. So what is there to worry about?” Henry Ford
  • What or who is Christian?
    • A man really becomes Christian when the sense of joy in his religion overflows his rights and duties (And hope for signs or blessings) The Law of the Harvest pg 286
    • What makes a man a Christian is neither his intellectual acceptance of certain idea, nor his conformity to a certain rule, but his possession of a certain spirit, and his participation in a certain Life. John Bailey
    • https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-48065.html
  • Boredom is giving physiologists more problems than distress – Vickter Frankel
    • Access to information is giving people more problems than sound doctrine
    • Ancient prophets gave us the fullness of the kingdom in less than 100 of a part that they wanted to say
    • The mind of man is giving members more problems than the mind of God will of God
    • The world wide web is giving members more problems than world wide wanting
    • A single 570 page book contains more doctrines of salvation than the rest of the world combined < = > . A single volume from God is greater than all the volumes from man
    • HE>I
    • Search the Scriptures for in them ye think he have eternal life. Search the world wide web for you find confusion and chaos conjecture
  • Where will you go?
    • M. Russell Ballard, Oct. conference 2016 Sunday morning
 
People & Stories
Apostate Commonalities (In their own words)
“All happy families resemble one another, but all unhappy families are unhappy in their own way.” Tosloy
  • Always just one thing they don’t understand, want to change, disagree with
    • Their “conscience” would not allow them change their position – to be in line with current revelation
  • Believe in the “central moral teaching of the church”
  • Profess they a have “deep love for the church and it’s members” Delpin, love the Lord
  • Confess to be “unorthodox mormons”
  • Disciplinary councils create division, disrespect, shame (tribal shaming)
    • Frame their argument around a characteristic of Christ (usually not doctrine)
    • “stripped me of my recommend even though I continue to faithfully follow Christ” Kristy Money
    • Church and leaders are too judgmental
  • No access to church leaders for “answers”
    • Church needs to have a “real conversation” about hard topics
  • All conference talks and lesson books only talk about basic doctrine
    • No meat
  • Want a worldly explanation to an eternal principle (not fully revealed)
    • They get eaten/digested by the world instead of being the leaven of the earth
  • Think members are “Brethren Centric”
    • “People are active in the church but not the gospel.” Steven Covey
  • Think Brethren are too old to understand.
    • Church needs to be modernize, up with the time
    • Leaders of a cult
    • A dead prophet said something more to their liking than a living one.  A dead prophet is more important than a living one.
  • Speak publicly
    • “in hopes they will be the last one to be disciplined because of their authenticity and refusal to submit to local leaders.”
    • Use public forums to gain a following for their personal problems
    • PDA – Public Display of Apostacy
  • Current practices or doctrine contradicts history
    • Analogy: you marry a woman who committed a felon or killed someone, you confront them about it and they say, “that happened a long time ago it doesn’t matter anymore.”
    • Practices and principles came from history not revelation
      • Blacks and the priesthood
      • Temple ordinances from Masons not revelation
      • Book of Abraham translations
      • DNA evidence from Asia
  • Church & history not accurate about former apostates
  • Church is to powerful
    • doesn’t disclose finances
    • is a corporation (owns business) not a church
  • Born and raised in the church (happy childhood) & usually went to a church school
    • “despite my unquestioning loyalty to the Church”
    • “felt like I had a testimony”
  • They leave the church, but they can’t leave the church alone
  • They do a lot of “research” and “soul searching”
  • Offended?
    • People like to cover up their issues with clever words and excuses
    • People walk through the halls of church with chips on their shoulders waiting and hoping to be knocked off. Maxwell
  • Vision & dreams
  • Martin Harris D&C 58:39
Apostate Commonalities (From the Lord)
  •  “slick of speech”
  • Moat vs. beam sickness
  • Sinspiration Is not inspiration
    • Boyd K. Packer, that all may be edified
  • A living prophet is more important than a dead one
  • What source did you turn to?
    • The philosophies of men mingled with marketing or
    • Have ye inquired of the Lord? ( grounded in the true gospel and God ) 1 Nephi 15:8-9
    • The sheep know the shepherd instead of trying to become a sheep herder ( around some idea )
    • ” Recieve instruction from my spirit…(DC 6:14)” or the secular?
  • How and where did you plant the seed?
  • What witness have you already had?
    • 1 Nephi 17:45 – angel, voice, feeling
    • “if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might know concerning the truth of these things
    • What greater witness can you have than from God?” DC 6:22-24
    • “Assurances (scriptures, spirit, prophet, faith others) are more important and potent than answers.” saw
    • We don’t believe that God has ever given mankind all of the answers…” The power of everyday missionaries, pg 32-33
    • “That person is not truly converted until he sees the power of God resting upon the leaders of this church, and until it goes down into his heart like fire.”
      • “The Strength of the Priesthood” Harold B. Lee
  • “Who’s on the Lords side who?”
    • Chose ye this day whom ye will serve, but as for me and my mind, heart I wil …
    • “rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name” Acts 5:41
    • “Satan seeketh to turn their hearts away from the truth, that they become blinded and understand not the things which are prepared for them.” DC 78:10
  • Hidden wedges ( Spencer Kimball, conference April 1966, pg 523)
    • It may take years before the wedge is manifest, after forgotten, neglected, rationalized
    • All people who fall have a forgotten wedge, although it may seem forced
      • “The height of a mans success is gauged by his self-mastery (to Christ); the depth of his failure by his self-abandonment.” Hirace Greeley
      • Apostasy isn’t always apparent but when the world wins over the word (Christ) the winds are enough to weaken and wound the weary.
    • Never get their “chariot of the sun”
    • From article ” forgotten wedges,” Samuel T. Whitman
  • Lecture brethren leave … And loose …
  • Lecture the Lord, berate the Brethren, criticize the church, complain about the curriculum, condemn the chosen (common folk), glamorize the gospel, rationalize the rituals, Flip flop their faith and follow fools, to justify their judgements, open the ordinances to operation, demilitarize the devil,
    • “Circumstance doesn’t make the man, it reveals it to himself.”
    • They are “cut to the heart and take councel to (change, etc.) Acts 5:33
    • There is no kickstarter (crowd souring) for Christ, legislature (liberalization of) for the Lord or Democracy for his doctrine
    • Principles aren’t changed by popularity like politicians change policy.
    • Saints have Faith in every footstep they don’t fall for fools gold or faultering with every fool
    • They leave the Lord for a temporal temper tantrum
    • “In the authority of the holy Apostleship, I now raise a voice of warning, and I make a solemn promise. If the day ever were to come that intellectual arrogance, a lack of appreciation, and a spirit of demanding entitlement take root on this campus — among the students, the faculty, the employees, the administration or within the community of Rexburg — then in that day the Spirit of Ricks will be well on the way to being extinguished. And the heavenly influence and blessings that have prospered this institution and the people associated with it will be withdrawn. “Conversely, as long as intellectual modesty, humility, gratitude, obedience, and frugality continue to characterize those who learn and serve at Brigham Young University-Idaho, then this university will shine forth ever brighter as a beacon of righteousness and of inspired educational innovation.” Elder Bednar – From the Devotional 26 January 2016 as quoted in The Idaho State Journal
  • Try to steady the arc of God
    • DC 85
  • Forget the “true vine” and get “root unto themselves”
      • D&C 1 – every man walketh after his own way and the image of his own God
      • Quote from Lewis
      • Reject the chief cornerstone – psalm 118:22
      • JS Matthew 1:5-7 “take head that no man deceive you…many shall come in my name…”
        • Betrayed from within
        • Spread to all nations
      • A reverence for the wisdom of the world caused the house of Israel to betray the apostles. 1 Nephi 11:35
  • “Anything a man doeth or sayeth is right”
    • “We are not living in a world where all roads are radii of a circle and where all, if followed long enough, will therefore draw gradually nearer and finally meet at the centre: rather in a world where every road, after a few miles, forks into two, and each of those into two again, and at each fork you must make a decision.”
  • They will not endure sound doctrine
    • “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; “And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Tim. 4:3–4.)
    • Saints want the gospel straight and undiluted ( J. Ruben Clark)
    • I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God;9 but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God,10 will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions:11 they cannot stand the fire12 at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law,13 and go through and receive their exaltation,14 I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen.15 (Jan. 20, 1844.) DHC 6:183-185.
      • Teachings of Joseph Smith, unwillingness of saints to learn
    • The law for the Jews is the same as the doctrine of the modern apostates – look beyond the mark. Jacob , 2 Nephi 25:25-35
    • “When things that are of the greatest importance are passed over by the weak-minded men without even a thought, I want to see truth in all its bearings and hug it to my bosom. I believe all that God ever revealed,1and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.” TPJS pg. 374
  • Revelation before reason
    • Paul on Mars Hill in Athens, Acts 17:16–34
    • They worshiped God’s creations rather than God himself. They replaced revelation with reason and debate, valuing the wisdom of men more than the truths of God
  • Conjecture commoditize  for Christ not covenant Christ or commitment to church
  • True Believers in Christ by Neal A. Maxwell
  • Doctrinal entrepreneurs (pg 11) and gospel hobbyism or adventurers (14) All lead to the same conclusion
    • Escotology explorers
    • Doctrines of Devils
    • “clarification does little for us if it doesn’t also help us internalize what our Father in Heaven offers us in these doctrine.” Bruce C. Hafen, “The Contrite Spirit” Chapter 1
    • “To be learned is good if they hearten to…”
  • Fight against God
    • “For if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought… But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it”
    • Theudas (Acts 5:36-40)
    • 36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
    • 37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
  • They murmur
    • Elder H. Ross Workman of the Seventy explained that “murmuring consists of three steps, each leading to the next in a descending path to disobedience.” First, when people murmur they begin to question. They question “first in their own minds and then [plant] questions in the minds of others.” Second, those who murmur begin to “rationalize and excuse themselves from doing what they [have] been instructed to do. … Thus, they [make] an excuse for disobedience.” Their excuses lead to the third step: “Slothfulness in following the commandment.”
    • “I invite you to focus on the commandment from living prophets that bothers you the most. Do you question whether the commandment is applicable to you? Do you find ready excuses why you cannot now comply with the commandment? Do you feel frustrated or irritated with those who remind you of the commandment? Are you slothful in keeping it? Beware of the deception of the adversary. Beware of murmuring” (in Conference Report, Oct. 2001, 104–6; or Ensign, Nov. 2001, 85–86).
  • Obedience is the only path of safety
    • Elder Donald L. Staheli of the Seventy quoted President Ezra Taft Benson (1899–1994) in order to teach about the power that comes through obedience: “Regardless of our age and stage in life, daily obedience to gospel principles is the only sure way to eternal happiness. President Ezra Taft Benson put it most poignantly when he said, ‘When obedience ceases to be an irritant and becomes our quest, in that moment God will endow us with power’” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1998, 108; or Ensign, May 1998, 82).
    • “There is but one path to safety to the Latter-Day Saints and that is the path of duty. It is not a testimony; it is not a marvelous manifestation, it is not knowing that the Gospel is true — it is not actually knowing that the Savior is the redeemer; but it is the keeping of the commandments of God, living he life of a Latter-day Saint.”Heber J. Grant “Seeking the spirit, McConkie, pg. 13
    • Fall into error because of sin
      • “they had fallen into great errors, for they would not observe to keep the commandments of God and his statutes…” Alma 31:9 After they had the word of God among them, they left it.
      • Alma leads mission to reclaim the apostate Zoramites
      • People know the church is true to the degree they are true to the church.
    • “Even the most inspiring words are wasted unless one can turn them into Acts and deeds.” Young patriots, pg 157
    • If my people will hearken unto my voice, and unto the voice of [these men] whom I have appointed to lead my people, behold, verily I say unto you, they shall not be moved out of their place” (D&C 124:45)
  • Loose the spirit, loose understanding and light
    • Person’s must so live that they can enjoy the light of the Holy Spirit or they will have no confidence in themselves in their religion or in their God and will sooner or later turn from the faith. God the Father, pg 128
    • What else do you loose?
  • Ask in faith
    • Faith never demands an answer to every question but seeks the assurance and courage to move forward, sometimes acknowledging, “I don’t know everything, but I do know enough to continue on the path of discipleship.” “Faith is not by chance, but by choice.” Oct 2015 conference
      • “Using our mind without our heart will not bring spiritual answers…
    • Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith. Elder Uchtdorf
  • “Church members will live in this wheat-and-tares situation until the Millennium. Some real tares even masquerade as wheat, including the few eager individuals who lecture the rest of us about Church doctrines in which they no longer believe. They criticize the use of Church resources to which they no longer contribute. They condescendingly seek to counsel the Brethren whom they no longer sustain. Confrontive, except of themselves, of course, they leave the Church, but they cannot leave the Church alone.”
  • When was the last time you read the scriptures?ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-d92VTHf8&feature=channel
    • “I’ve learned to give the Lord equal time.”
  • God will not acknowledge traitors
    • “God never will acknowledge any traitors14 or apostates.15 Any man who will betray the Catholics will betray you; and if he will betray me,16 he will betray you. All men are liars who say they are of the true Church without the revelations of Jesus Christ17 and the Priesthood of Melchizedek,18 which is after the order of the Son of God. It is in the order19 of heavenly things20 that God should always send a new dispensation into the world when men have apostatized from the truth and lost the priesthood,21 but when men come out22 and build upon other men’s foundations,23 they do it on their own responsibility, without authority from God;1 and when the floods come and the winds blow, their foundations will be found to be sand,2 and their whole fabric will crumble to dust.3 Did I build on any other man’s foundation?4” TPJS pg. 375
Resources
  • Preventing personal apostasy BY https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-brigham-young/chapter-12?lang=eng
  • See note “The Mind – Thinking – Mental – Thought Control”
  • 14 fundamentals of a prophet
  • Heber C. Kimball prophecy, October conference 2016, Cook, a test
    • They study doctrine, but not themselves/trends/habits, their devotion more important than doctrine or Christ,

Tags: ,

No Comments

Leave a reply

Story Page